an interview with Roberto Perez the permaculturalist

I decided that it might be a good idea to come up with a few specific questions for Roberto Perez of FANJ. I know I have a habit of leading conversations off track a bit. We'll see how it goes! [As you will read, I did lead the conversation off quite a bit, Roberto and I stayed talking from 2pm until we were kicked out of the office at closing time].

To give a bit of background... Roberto Perez was trained as a biologist and came to work with FANJ very early on in his career. He was involved in the Cuban urban agriculture movement from its beginnings. In fact, he was at the airport when the first permaculture designers came from Australia in the early 1990s. He was taught permaculture design from the Australians (along with English and an Aussie accent which has since become diluted). Since then, he has helped design and build demonstration gardens throughout Havana and trained hundreds of others in Permaculture design methods. He has also travelled extensively (rare for a Cuban) to see similar projects in other countries, especially Canada. He did a Postgraduate Diploma at St. FX in Antigonish, just 2 hours from my home!

Here goes my preposed questions:

[I only transcribed notes of Roberto's responses, a transcript would be pages long.]

"As a designer from a different culture, different climate and different economy, what would you say are the most precious 'jems of knowledge' that I should take back with me? I will be presenting my findings to a groups of ecological designers."

FLEXABLE POLITICAL WILL

The biggest enabling factor for the success and eventual integration of the work was flexable political will. This is especially true when it comes to land-use policy. Support for sustainable food systems came direct from the top (Fidel) and laws were altered and practises adapted that suited the development of urban agriculture. Roberto noted that this type of change is not so easy in a capitalist system where land has, what he described as, 'different value'. A good example of this flexability is the clearing and cleaning of vacant lots in Havana. As is common in Britian, vacacnt city lots in Havana gathered rubbish and debris (especially in the 1980s). Masses of red tape and petty quarrels between neighbours often kept these lots in a state of dis-repair. Changes in policy allowed these lots to be cleared and used for gardens. Roberto says that in other countries this would probably never happen. In other countries we often see vacant lots gathering rubbish with chain link fences around them preventing any useful use! In Cuba land only has value related to its usefulness, rather than speculative value.


MARKET FLEXABILITY

The socialist collective supply market was just as rigid [perhaps even moreso] as western capitalist markets. The political will that allowed changes in how food was marketed in Cuba found this truth: 'there is always space in the market for a variety of services'. For instance, there are rules that prevent small allotment gardeners in Britian from selling their produce. These rules are meant to protect farmers, who make their only livelihood from selling food. Cuban officials feared failure of the large collective farms and state price controls by allowing an alternative market. In reality, the state supplied food still plays a large part in the Cuban diet and will continue to do so. [At this point I added the comment that TESCO or Sainsbury's has nothing to fear from market gardeners. They are well suited to adapt and by no means fill all the 'needs' of the market.] Market regulators need to adjust rules to scale. The many food safety and tracability laws do help protect us from poor quality food, but do not make sense applied to a small vendor selling bottles of home made jam.

FOOD INDUSTRY LABOUR MARKET

Working in food production in Cuba pays well. This attracts innovative, intelligent and industrious workers. This isn't the same in other countries for many reasons. In order for the system to be sustainable something needs to be done to change this.

PLANNING AND DESIGN OF PUBLIC SPACES

Designers and planners have to rethink public spaces, especially parks and green spaces. There exists an absurd distinction between ornimental and productive horticulture. Edible plants need to be given a greater emphasis in public areas. This is still forthcoming in Cuba and a current FANJ project is dealing with this. Standard architectural rendering show shrubs and trees outside buildings, sometimes even inside. Why not apple or pear trees, berry hedges?

PLANNING OF GARDEN SPACE

There are physical limits with plants and space. There are also relationships to efficiency and size, labour requirements and economic sense when it comes to gardens. This is what has been discovered in Havana. In order of least productive to most productive: Home Garden, Allotment, Collective, and Community. This is also connected to size. However, we must not simply interpret this as 'bigger is better'. There are appropriate uses for each. That being said, it must be understood that the scale of productivity is not completely linear. When thinking of planning, a collective garden that supplies 5 families is probably a little smaller in total size than 5 family sized allotments. Efficiencies are gained in the layout and sharing of things like shed space, which makes sense but actual productivity is much much higher than an allotment and labour requirements per person are lower. The problem then becomes a social one. Cubans have developed various and flexable social system to suit collectives. They are usually based simply on labour. All production is based on number of hours worked in the garden.

CHEAP, HEALTHY AND FRESH

Locally grown food is cheap, healthy and fresh. Probably the most important one is cheap, in Cuba the farmer's markets are much much cheaper than the supermarkets. It is also much fresher. Farmer's markets in northern countries are expensive and thus limit their market.

"In Britian we faced a food crisis from 1939 to well into the 1950s. As an island nation that was highly dependant on trade, the war had a dramatic impact on daily life and people's perceptions of food. This response, however, was seen more as a 'war measure' that was quickly abandoned than a long term solution. As Cuba emerged from the 'Special Period', what has made these measures, such as urban agriculture, become long term solutions?"

The answer is basically twofold:
-Political will... see answer from above.
-It makes economic sense, urban farmers in Cuba tap in to a very lucritive market economy earning more than they would doing other jobs.

I concluded my conversation with Roberto speaking about possible collaborations with my contacts in Scotland and arranged a second meeting as it was time to go.